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Author Topic: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation  (Read 12893 times)
John Szczep
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Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« on: January 24, 2006, 04:15:00 pm »

Hi all

John Szczepaniak here again.

I wrote another article featuring Star Control 2, with an interesting piece of information from Mr Reiche that I've not read before. He very kindly answered some questions during the Christmas holiday season.

Page in question:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/29/6

Article starts here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/29/3

I also linked to the main SC2 remake front page. Smiley

Rather an interesting revelation about the Ur-Quan, no?
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2006, 10:28:32 pm »

I have to comment on the layout of that website.

very attractive! well designed.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2006, 11:11:11 pm »

I missed the homosexual repression theme he mentions. Gender, sure... homosexual? Not popping to my mind.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2006, 01:00:36 am »

John, thank you for sharing this article with us. I'm surprised at the aloofness of the critics you mentioned. They make blanket statements about the entire genre of video games without knowing the first thing about its rich lineage. Hopefully, your article will find its way into their hands at some point.

I missed the homosexual repression theme he mentions. Gender, sure... homosexual? Not popping to my mind.

I recall some speculation about this in the past.

It makes sense to me in the context of the story. After all, the Androsynth do wear pink triangles.

I think it's a testament to Paul Reiche's writing that he can work in such mature themes under our noses.  Smiley
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2006, 01:58:38 am »

"I missed the homosexual repression theme he mentions. Gender, sure... homosexual? Not popping to my mind."

I didn't notice that much on religion either. I don't consider the new aged Pkunk or cultish/satanist Ilwrath to be a real hit against religion as a whole. The Gazurtoid and Tandelou of the Starflight games were much better examples of this.

Come to think of it, I don't think SC2 is so much of a progressive thing (minus the druuge) as it is a simple joking look at the various facets of human nature or maybe just ideology and 'isms in general. Sort of a way to look at a few of the mindsets that people take so seriously from a comical perspective (with the exception of the UQ.) If you get too preachy, you limit your audience.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2006, 02:51:35 am »

I missed the homosexual repression theme he mentions. Gender, sure... homosexual? Not popping to my mind.
Yeah, the Syreen for gender obviously. But consider this: have you ever heard mention of a female Androsynth? Or have you seen a picture of one? Or seen one represented anywhere in the game? =)

Also:
Quote
We intended for the alien races to exemplify human personal and cultural foibles in a focused and exaggerated manner.
To me this doesn't imply an intent to "stick it" to any particular group or foible, merely showing them in a different light and allowing the player to interpret them as he will.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2006, 03:37:01 am »

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Yeah, the Syreen for gender obviously. But consider this: have you ever heard mention of a female Androsynth? Or have you seen a picture of one? Or seen one represented anywhere in the game? =)

Not really fair, considering there are few mentions of female ANYTHING in Star Control II.

The only mentions of sex (gender has an entirely different meaning, by the way) I can find are:

A) A few female Earthlings are mentioned in flavor text and in the Earthling pilot graphics
B) The Syreen as a whole, make limited mentions to male Syreen
C) The Melnorme refer to the Keel Verezey as "He/she/they"
D) The female Shofixti, which BTW, we never ever see an illustration of.

So by and large, it's EXTREMELY unfair to say the Androsynth are homosexual based on something like that, any more than any of the alien races are (necessarily) unisex.

Also, I think you kind of missed the boat entirely.  I think the idea behind the article was that the Androsynth are repressed LIKE homosexuals at the time, not AS homesexuals.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2006, 03:55:49 am »

"But consider this: have you ever heard mention of a female Androsynth?"

Maybe the androsynth are just sexists.

I wonder who the Orz represent?
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2006, 04:19:14 am »

No no no. Androsynth do not breed sexually so there aren't any males or females. The ones you see are all "male" in appearance, but I remember reading somewhere that they reproduce by way of cloning vats.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2006, 05:18:24 am »

Well, according to the Ultronomicon,

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Sexual relationships and family structures among the Androsynth were, obviously, normatively "homosexual," as no female gender existed in their ranks. Androsynth revolutionary theory seemed to consciously identify itself with ideas similar to those expressed in the gay-rights movement of the late 20th and early 21st century, as the Androsynth, like homosexuals, had to confront and reject traditional religious and cultural definitions of "humanity" based on one's being part of an unbroken chain of sexual reproduction that defined one's family line. This may be why the Androsynth after the Emigration consciously changed the Androsynth insignia from a black inverted triangle to a pink one, imitating the 20th-century symbol of homosexual liberation.

No idea if it's accurate, but it was there before today.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2006, 01:43:00 pm »

I don't recall any homosexual references. I must have
missed those. I do recall noting religion is brought up
a lot. The Spathi "Evil Ones", the Utwig magic device,
the Ilwrath as a whole, the new age Pkunk....to a
degree the Yehat honour system might paralell a
religion. Of course, the whole basis for the Ur-Quan
race(s) in the game was religion. I'd say, in light of
these, religion was painted with a dark brush in
SC2.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2006, 09:01:37 pm »

Hi all, I'm just here to answer some questions you have regarding the Androsynth

A few years ago me and some other members at the SCDB were wondering about the whole "gay" thing (mostly regarding the pink triangles), and so I eventually wrote a letter to Paul Reiche via email and he eventually wrote me back saying the following, copy and pasted from the original letter:

Quote
Hi Maria,

Good question!  My initial intention was that, yes, they were gay, or more properly, strictly monosexual.  About the time Fred and I were working on Star Control II, I had my first friendships with openly gay folks.  It always has felt good to me to discard a prejudice and I hoped to share that opportunity in teeny-weeny little way with the people who played my games.  BUT, when I shared this notion with our publisher, some folks took this to mean that they should use stereotypes for humor, as for instance the "fashion designers of space" crap that ended-up in the manual.  I feel like I should have been more courageous getting that comment edited out and if it offended anyone, I feel really bad about that.

Hopefully as the future unfolds, we will find our species more accepting of others and more appreciative of individual expression... either that or we should all get jetpacks.  I'm cool either way.

Sincerely,

- Paul Reiche

Ps.  By the way, now I am not so sure that all the Androsynth are male.  I imagine they might descend from a few clonal lines, so I expect there would be both male and female and perhaps some neutrals.

So in the end Paul himself wasn't even sure what to make of it, since he was uncomfortable about the whole situation.

But mainly, yes, the original notion and/or idea was that the Androsynth are based off of gay culture and were (male) homosexuals. The small pink triangles (which are a common symbol of homosexual community) were a way of showing gratitude to his openly gay friends who played the game.

mmmyep
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2006, 10:48:46 pm »

Not really fair, considering there are few mentions of female ANYTHING in Star Control II.

The only mentions of sex (gender has an entirely different meaning, by the way) I can find are:

A) A few female Earthlings are mentioned in flavor text and in the Earthling pilot graphics
B) The Syreen as a whole, make limited mentions to male Syreen
C) The Melnorme refer to the Keel Verezey as "He/she/they"
D) The female Shofixti, which BTW, we never ever see an illustration of.

So by and large, it's EXTREMELY unfair to say the Androsynth are homosexual based on something like that, any more than any of the alien races are (necessarily) unisex.

Also, I think you kind of missed the boat entirely.  I think the idea behind the article was that the Androsynth are repressed LIKE homosexuals at the time, not AS homesexuals.

The Kohr-Ah Primat. The Pkunk Queen. The Yehat Queen. I think one of the Utwig Proctors is referred to as female but I might be wrong about that. Anyway, how that means he can't consider the point, which is all I suggested, is beyond me but whatever.

btw, I know gender has a different meaning than sex which is why I used it specifically to refer to the Syreen, who have different (seemingly reversed) gender roles than humans.
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2006, 01:39:41 am »

And when a male and a female slylandro meet...
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Re: Interesting Paul Reiche III revelation
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2006, 03:30:53 pm »

And when a male and a female slylandro meet...
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